‘This Is Upside Down World’: Fox News’ Bret Baier And Martha MacCallum Talk About Covering The Chaotic 2024 Race & The Rise Of Kamala Harris

Fox News was the most watched network for the Republican National Convention last month, drawing an overwhelming share of the viewers throughout the week, including an average of 9.43 million on the final night.

The question is whether the Democratic National Convention will be a far different story — a big if given that leaders in the party have at times chided or shunned the network.

That said, figures such as Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg and Sen. Chris Coons (D-DE) have made recent appearances, while Kamala Harris’ campaign announced over the weekend that part of a mega ad buy would be on the network’s daytime programming, “particularly during day-time programming which reaches a more moderate audience.”

In separate interviews, Deadline spoke to Special Report‘s Bret Baier and The Story‘s Martha MacCallum, who are lead anchors of Fox News’ coverage, about what they expect this week, whether it’s a challenge to book Democrats on their shows, and the prospects for Fox News hosting a presidential debate. 

DEADLINE: The race is totally different from where things left off in Milwaukee. Would you have expected the race to be where it is now? 

BAIER: I would have put money that Biden was going to probably stay in, and up until that Saturday [after the Republican convention], he was, and saying he was going to be the nominee. Fourteen and a half million Democrats had voted for him, and I thought he was going to stay on. So I thought the race was starting to gel, that it was the former president’s to lose. Now I think we’re going to have a really tight race that, again, will come down to probably six states and probably 300,000 votes or fewer in a country of 330 million. So we could be in for a squeaker.

MACCALLUM: You see this huge kind of relief rally on the Democrat side, that they have a new candidate, they have someone they’re excited about. And I think that that has reset this whole race, which is fascinating to watch. We’ll see how things go in Chicago for Democrats, and we’ll see what comes after that. A lot of people feel the race really resets after Labor Day as well.

DEADLINE: What storylines will you be watching for, or is this going to be primarily a celebration?

MACCALLUM: One of the things I remember thinking during the Republican convention was that it felt pretty organic, the enthusiasm. I haven’t seen people that excited in quite a while. I remember Van Jones over at CNN saying, ‘There’s something happening here this week. There’s a movement.’ There’s an excitement that feels very real among the people who were there, and beyond. So now you have the shoe on the other foot. It is the Democrats’ opportunity, and they certainly have a big shot in the arm with Kamala Harris taking over. And I think the way she consolidated power so quickly, when not long ago people were asking whether Joe Biden should remove her from the ticket, whether she was a drag on the ticket. So this is upside down world, and it’s fascinating, from a reporter perspective, to watch all this happen. I think there’s probably another shoe to drop somewhere. I don’t know what it is, but I think we’ve all become very aware that this is quite a volatile cycle.

BAIER: I think it’ll be chock full of different storylines. Israel Gaza, and whether protesters show up, that may be one. I think when it comes to how this race is going to be lining up is really the biggest storyline. She’s clearly closed the gap, and in some cases, is ahead, and some of the betting odds have her more of a chance to win the presidency. Just that alone kind of ups the ante for the convention, and I think it’ll be fascinating. We’re going to have a lot of Democratic surrogates on my show. I know we have Governor [Josh] Shapiro and Governor [Gavin] Newsom, Secretary Buttigieg, others.

DEADLINE: How did the Democrats’ change at the top of the ticket alter the way that that Fox News is covering next week?

MACCALLUM: We’ve watched a remarkable deposing of the top of the ticket. It’s like nothing I’ve ever seen before. There have been times in history when it looked like a candidate was in pretty tough shape, but the party didn’t push him off the ticket and replace him with somebody. So that’s what we saw here, and so it creates a very different environment going into this and of course, we cover it like we cover everything, just watching all of the steps along the way here. I think she’s going to have to start to define herself in a clear way after this convention.

DEADLINE: How difficult is it to get Democrats as guests on your show?

BAIER: I have Democrats on all the time, and we have a segment called Common Ground where we bring a Democrat and Republican on together, talking about what they’re working on. That has been a real success story for about a year, and now ranking members and chairmen are trying to get on the show a lot. So already the DNC had reached out to us and our show … There’s Democrats, independents and and Republicans who watch our show. I think they want to reach them.

MACCALLUM: I talk to John Kirby a lot from the White House. I talk to a number of lawmakers that join us frequently. I guess it is a little bit harder than getting Republicans to come on, but this is their week, so they should want to come on.

DEADLINE: Bret, Nikki Haley was on your show last week, essentially trying to tell Donald Trump to focus on the issues and not the personalities. Do you think she was trying to talk to reach him and send a message? 

BAIER: I do. I think she was clearly saying that the issues are what need to be focused on, and not the crowd sizes and race or the various things that the former president has mentioned along the way. I think she clearly wanted to come on and get that message out, and it got picked up a lot of places. And I’m sure the former president or his campaign got to view it one way or another.

DEADLINE: Do you think it is a challenge for Trump to run against a woman, and a woman of color?

BAIER: I don’t know if it’s a challenge for him. I think the early days of this transition to a new nominee on the Democratic side has maybe flummoxed the Trump campaign as they’re trying to figure out the best attack line. And I think there’s plenty of time that this race will kind of gel … But I do think the switch over threw some folks for a loop.

DEADLINE: What will you be looking for to determine that this is a successful convention for the Democrats?

BAIER: The least amount of disunity and the sense of coming together as a party. Unity being the message of the different wings of the party.

MACCALLUM: There was a Monmouth poll yesterday that I thought was stunning, and it showed that prior to Biden leaving the race, the enthusiasm rate among Democrats was in the upper 40s, and now it’s in the upper 80s, which is a stunning move. I don’t know how much higher it can go after the convention, but that’s a measure that we’ll be looking at. But I just think that in and of itself is an extraordinary story., the leap in enthusiasm, especially for someone who people thought was a drag on the ticket… And the other thing I’m watching closely is the issue of suburban women voters, and independent suburban women voters in particular, and how they move. Where are the people that are sort of the margins of what is a tight race? How anybody who will be persuaded by this convention and moved over into Harris’ column or Trump’s, I think is that’s the whole story right there.

DEADLINE: Fox News has proposed a debate for September and Donald Trump has accepted. What do you think are the chances Fox News will host a debate that both candidates will agree to? (Kamala Harris has not accepted, but says there will be another debate in October, with no network announced). 

BAIER: We’re doing everything we can to talk to folks and see if we could be the one in October. It’s obviously a different ball game. It’s like the Wild West trying to lock all of it down without the Presidential Debate Commission running the show. So we’re trying hard. If not a debate, maybe consecutive town halls or something like that.