Affirm’s CEO on Holiday Shopping, Why He Started His Company — and Elon Musk

Max Levchin was once a computer scientist who couldn’t get a credit card—even after his company went public. Now he runs a payments platform taking on the credit-card companies he calls the “coal-burning fuel plants” of the financial industry.

Levchin, founder and CEO of Affirm (AFRM), on CNBC Tuesday discussed what the buy now, pay later (BNPL) provider was seeing this holiday season. He also shared his professional origin story and described how his relationship with Paypal (PYPL) co-founder Elon Musk has evolved.

Here are some of the highlights.

He was spurned by the credit-card sector.

Levchin immigrated from Ukraine as a teenager without a credit history. He said he was late paying his credit card bills a few times in college, which tanked his credit score for years.

“Even after the Paypal IPO, I couldn’t get a credit card, couldn’t buy a car,” Levchin said. “There are many people like me, and I wanted to start a company that would help them get recognition, get fairly underwritten.”

With Affirm, he said, he also sought to undercut an industry that had “devolved” into relying on late fees and deferred interest policies.

He sees having an entrepreneur in the White House as a good thing.

Asked if he has discussed incoming President Donald Trump with Musk, a member of the incoming administration, Levchin said the pair chat about more lighthearted matters.

“We keep our conversations to science fiction,” Levchin said. “It’s always a safe topic.”

Still, Levchin expressed support for making the government more efficient, the stated aim of the new Department of Government Efficiency.

“All the talk of efficiency sounds great to me. I am far from a governmental expert, so how they pull that off is probably a little bit mysterious,” Levchin said. “I love the idea of entrepreneurial spirit in the government.”

Personal tech and apparel are popular purchases this holiday season.

U.S. consumers are doing “really well” based on activity on Affirm, Levchin said.

Users have been spending on apparel, furniture, housewares, travel and tech, he noted. (Read more of Investopedia’s coverage of the start to holiday shopping season here.)

“I made a big pronouncement that consumer electronics were going to be back; everybody needs an upgrade,” he said. “I was right. It’s in the top five.”